Internet PLC Forum
General => Technical support => Topic started by: cdenk on October 06, 2009, 01:12:15 PM
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Just got a 23" LCD monitor 16:9 screen for the PC, and several size issues:
1: The TRILOGI (V 6.13) screen size is less than half the width of the monitor. How can I make it full width, and yes that will mean scrolling more?
2: How can I adjust the text size of both the Trilogi window, and custom functions?
3: Not related to above, but is there a way to open custom function windows to a larger size by default? Everytime I start Trilogi, and open a custom function, I need to drag the window corner to a bigger size.
Thanking in advance. :)
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You can upgrade to version 6.24 or wait a while and upgrade to version 6.30 next week. The custom function screen size will be remembered so that when you restart TRiLOGI you don't have to resize the ladder logic editor or the custom function size.
iTRiLOGI still only allows a maximum of 13 horizontal contacts on a line so wider screen is not very useful. But longer screen can be more useful ("portrait" instead of "landscape") since it allows you to see more circuits. Also in i-TRiLOGI version 6.24 or later, both Custom Function and ladder logic screen can be placed side by side and a wide screen can be quite useful that way since you can double-click on any custom function coil on the ladder program and instantly see the program code in the custom function editor.
To upgrade, please follow the "Upgrade" link in the "Help" menu.
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Thanks on the window sizes, how can I increase the text font sizes of both Custom Function and ladder logic screens?
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Look for the file:
C:\TRiLOGI\TL6\en_language.txt
and change the font_increment to a larger or smaller value (defaut is 1).
You can also change some of the strings to alter the menu text if you don't like the default.
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Thanks for the reply, we are getting a little closer. My font_increment was "0" (never changed before) , changed it to "10", maybe can go as small as "8". The 23" screen resolution is 1920 x 1080. XP PRO in itself was difficult to get most text and other items sized properly. One text size item was buried in Internet Explorer! LCD transition with Kubuntu was a little easier, but seems like, as popular as these screens are now days, the software side hasn't followed. Several items though:
1: The vertical line spacing doesn't adjust for the character size, and at the coil end of a rung, the cust function name, other coils, get overlapped vertically.
2: Comment rungs also nearly overlap vertically, and line lengths don't wrap properly and run off the end of the window.
3: The top menu and circuit bar's text size is small, and didn't follow other window's setting or the font_increment setting. This includes the size of the circuit components (coils and contacts) icons on the rungs.
4: Since I have a wide screen, found it was convenient to not hide it automatically and leave it up. The custom function window's left edge goes to the screen left edge under the start bar.
I haven't upgrade to the current version, was waiting on next week. If you think, upgrading at this time, I could, and report back. :)
Is there a way to attach a JPG to messages here? I could attach a screen shot of these items.
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The font increment is intended to support increment of the font size by not more than 3 and the real pupose is to support more complex language such as Chinese, Korean and Japanese fonts where the word width is short but the font is complex and an enlarge character works better for these languages but it is really not designed to handle very large font.
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I was hoping not to be so much to the point, but: The current generation of LCD monitors want to be operated at high resolutions, this one, which is more the normal is 1920 x 1080. Trilogi, and the server become basically unusable at these resolutions. I would be just as happy at the 1024 x 768 of my previous CRT monitor, but that's not was is recommended by the manufacturers. I'm sure, I'm not the only to have the issue, and is probably fairly wide spread. Can the necessary adjustments be made to the software to solve the issue. It would be nice if the software could look at Windows resolution setting and make the necessary settings automatically. It is not unusual to temporarily install Trilogi on a client's computer to make some field changes, and who knows how that machine is setup.
This computer is using WinXP PRO SP2
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I have no problems with font size with the TRilog tools.
I'm using a wide-screen monitor with a native resolution of 1920x1200. My system, now is Vista-32 and the most recent version of Java (1.6.0_15-b03).
I was using the same monitor with my XP system.
The default screen font size is determined by Windows. There is a setting that controls the size and appearance of the default screen font. I have set my screen resolution to 96 DPI.
For XP, right click on an empty space on the desk top. From the pop up window select:
Display Properties > Settings > Advanced > Display dpi
Change the DPI settings to something like 120 DPI for really big text.
For Vista, right click on an empty space on the desk top. From the pop up window select:
Personalize > Adjust font size (DPI) > Custom DPI ...
gary d
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Thanks for the reply
I already have had the XP Display Properties > Settings > Advanced > Display dpi set to 120.
Both the Trilogi and Server window (including custom function) font sizes are near 6 or 7 point if on paper. Per above message, I set fontIncrement 10 in the file C:\TRiLOGI\TL6\en_language.txt. Then the Trilogi fonts are good sized at 12- 14 if on paper, but the vertical line spacing is not adjusted, and there are overlaps on the ladder diagram. The custom functions are OK. If you send a private message to me via profiles, I'll attach back a JPG screen shot showing the issue.
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Took a little different approach to the issue, Googled for "java font sizes high resolution". One of the links seemed to indicate that there are some rather basic Java programming items that would help. I'm not familiar with Java, so it may be questionable at best.
http://www.3rd-evolution.de/tkrammer/docs/java_font_size.html
Again, with the popularity of these high resolution monitors, I'm amazed that this is such an issue, and doesn't appear anyone including Microsoft and Sun have addressed the problem.
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If after setting the DPI to 120 it didn't make any difference in your display then could be it that there an issue with the display driver?
Resolution such as 1920 x 1080 used to be only on very big display it gives user a larger Windows or desktop to play with without making the font size of existing application too minuscule to be useful. If your monitor seems a bit too small to display in the highest resolution then going back down to a lower resolution may be an easier fix then trying to get all your applications to be able to display a larger font size. So far we haven't had other users asking to increase the font size so dramatically. We will however submit your opinion to the software development for consideration. As of now there isn't an easy fix to double the size of everything being displayed in i-TRiLOGI.
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This is a 23" HP w2338h monitor with a native resolution of 1920 x 1080. HP recommends using this resolution. Many other manufacturers of this size/resolution are available. As an extreme for some years presentations using a projector, was common. This is not an extreme by today's standards. The video card is an ATI HD 2400, and use similar resolutions when using HDMI cable to TV set. ATI drivers are current within a month. The operating system is WINXP PRO SP2, updated a week ago. All this is on a Intel DP965LT motherboard. I don't think any of this is an unusual setup.
I was going to get Trilogi running on a computer with WINME to see what happens, but haven't had time to get to that, maybe later today. Was thinking of downgrading the resolution to 1024 x768 that I previously used, but will have to check with HP first. I have seen where another user is using a Nvidia card with no problems. All this is beyond my getting into the machine code of drivers, etc.
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OK, we are getting closer :) Downloaded and installed TRiLOGI Version 6.24 build 03, and Java product 1.6.0_16 With the wide monitor running at 1920 x 1080 resolution here are comments:
1: The sidebar on the custom function window is a very nice addition. That goes with the wide screen nicely.
2: The Java Control Panel is small size font also. Seems like Sun has issues also.
3: The web pages (http://www.tri-plc.com/home.htm) in IE 6, text sizes and window do not change size with VIEW > TEXT SIZE. In Firefox 3.0.14, the text sizes do change size, but the window size does not. Would like to see larger text and corresponding window.
4: I have the Windows (XP PRO) start bar on left side always visible. In Trilogi, when first opening, and all windows (custom function, ladder comment), they are all at the left edge of the screen, hidden under the start bar. The maximized window is correct width.
5: The Tserver opens with very small size text, but since this is not used frequently, that is not an issue, but would be nice to have good sized text.
6: Trilogi window text, except the top Title bar is also very small. Changing fontIncrement to 3 makes Ladder labels and contents of comment editing, and custom function windows fonts a little bigger, which is adequate, but the contact and coil numbers remain small. The comments on the ladder are truncated when they reach the end of the green background. Settled on a setting of 5, which is about the limit of vertical line spacing without overlap. But the line length is an issue. Would like to be able to stick to a standard printer line length of just under 80 characters to minimize paper length/pages printed and displayed.
Hope this helps with improving the situation. Ideally, the software should check the windows resolution setting and automatically make adjustments. Some of our applications may not see any use for some years if all runs well. Then if a change is needed, would hope Trilogi could be loaded and the changes accomplished with a minimum of setup issues. :)
Thanks again.
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One other item, just appeared. With the fontIncrement to anything other than 1, tried 2 to 5, the online monitoring relay column has the issues of the earlier version with blacked out, top line only with set to 1, to whole column garbled with set to 3 or more.
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Do you have DirectX installed? Check your control panel and see if there is configuration tool for DirectX. We found that some video driver with DirectX is causing the display issue mentioned, see the following thread:
http://www.tri-plc.com/yabbse/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=1459
Lets try to analyse this issue a little bit more: Todays most 15.4" laptop monitor is about 2/3 the size of your 23" monitor. 15.4" monitor typically are about 1200 x 800 pixels. This means that the vertical resolution is also about 2/3 of your 1200 resolution. That means theoretically the display size on the two monitor should be about the same to the human eyes. Yet you are seeing extremely small font which doesn't make much sense.
I do think that your video display is having an issue working with JRE/Windows. Not sure who is the culprit here as there are so many parties involved.
Did you try different version of JRE? What about earlier JRE 1.4.2? We still like JRE 1.4.2 a lot more than the newer JRE as it is proven to be much more stable than the newer version.
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I just upgraded Java to the latest, think the previous version was 1.5. There seemed to be some improvement with the latest version. I will downgrade to an earlier version from the CD, and report back. It might be a day or 2.
Directx is not installed, at least it didn't appear in Task Manager processes or Msconfig. There is several Directx.logs, but they show no activity for several years. I see there are several versions of Directx I could install, thinking version 9.0C is appropriate, but at this point somewhat reluctant to install. Thoughts??
On the monitor size: The previous 19" monitor @1024 x 768 was 15" wide which is 68 DPI. The current 23" is 20" wide @ 1920 x 1020 = 96 DPI. What would be 12 point on the old looks like just above 8 point on the new. Note the new monitor is a wide screen like a HD TV.
And yes, I agree, this problem could be located numerous locations. Even some of the Window's windows are small font, with no apparent way to enlarge. The Start > Run window is one of these. But nearly all of my applications, including Microchip MPLAB IDE handle the font sizes OK. I am surprised that Microsoft and Java haven't addressed the issue, and software publishers made the necessary changes.
Thanks again. :)
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Sorry for the delay, was busy with other items.
Downgraded to Java2, 1.4.2_06 from the CD from 1.6.0_03-B05. There is no significant changes. Will keep 1.4... loaded for a few days if someone has some comments. fontIncrement 4 results in ladder rung font size a bigger, about 10 point, but the rung comment, and custom function windows text is small and if changed is little, would like to get at least 2 sizes bigger. Fixed the Ladder comments by editing to shorter lines. The comments need a CR at the end so the cursor is on a blank line to prevent overlap with the rung below labels.
All the windows still open at the screen's left edge,under the left side always visible start bar. Since most applications don't need the 16:9 screen width, this is working well, where I wouldn't of considered with the more square proportions.