Access system

[CYBERTEK007]

Am looking to use your plc's to control our whole building
the AC system, Door Access, Alarm interface to call security monitoring service,
Garage door openers as well as KWH Logging and monitoring
Started on the code for the 8 10ton water loop AC System
and the cooling towers

Now i need to start on the Door Access and controll system
but i need some examples of doing a keypad encoder!
I would like to use six or more numbers for the codes and
like it to communicate to the master plc to autenticate the code entered!
then send back to the initiating plc to open door if code is authentic.

the problem is there is no standard on access systems
some use 4 dig + *  like our mag lock
some use # first then code like our Road Gate
some use just 4 numbers no #* or enter like our alarm system
some use 6 numbers and the # sign

not to mention every time someone leaves,quits,gets fired, Ect.
it takes all day to remove or reprogram there codes out of the many systems used
and now we are adding 20,000 more sq ft
9 garage doors,9 man doors, 6 more alarm keypads\systems, 2nd access gate
Point is I would like to get to the point of 1 place to make any changes or additions
and also handel Lighting control, Fans, alarm, HVAC Systems, Energy Management,
Access controll, Ect....  and your system has the power,Flexability, and price range to
Do the job Centrialized Building Controll System.

Just need some application notes,examples to guide me
down the right path and help me get started.

This may be a good product addition to your line.
or a startup line for some programing guru out there.

Any notes on KWH logging would be helpfull to.
you know Utility Power Recording

[plc_user]

Greetings, in response to your question:

You might want to look at the company Matrix Orbital online.  They have a variety of LCD displays that incorporate a matrix keypad interface.  That way you can poll the COM port or something alike for the apporpriate keycode and have your ladder program store the codes in order to achieve what you are trying to do.  I believe this will be your lest expense way to achieve your project.

The HMI that Triangle Research has is great but you will have to look at each key and do the appriate action.  The time saved with an INCOMM command in a subroutine compared to a couple ladder logic rungs and etc....

Hope this helps....

[support]

There are probably controllers out there dedicated for door access control that may be a better solution. Is it necessary to integrate the access control to the rest of the building control?

However, if you wish to use our PLC for this purpose, then the MD-HMI keypad + LCD is pretty flexible in terms of how you may use it. You can program it as a keypad for use to enter the pass code. To change the system passcode in the PLC, the simplest way may be to use a PC to make changes. There are so many possibilities, one of them is to connect to the PLC to your LAN via XServer. You can then connect to the XServer' virtual HMI using an internet browser and then enter a new passcode by changing it directly via virtual HMI.  This way the administrator can do this change on his desktop and don't need to go near the door in order to change the passcode.

Another way is to program  the MD-HMI such as to press one function key to enter the "admin" mode. The PLC will ask you for the special admin password before taking you there. Once you are in the admin mode, you can change the entry passcode by enter a new passcode. That way, as the admin you are able to override the password anytime easily.  At the end, you quit the admin mode by pressing another function key and it goes back to normal entry mode. This solution is low cost and not difficult to implement although you need to make changes at each door individually.

If you link multiple PLCs together via RS485 to a master PLC, then you can make changes to the passcode only at the master PLC and then the master PLC will update the new passcode to all the slave PLCs controlling each door. This way you only need to make changes at one place and it gets updated at all the door.

Sample programs for PLC networking, MD-HMI keypad etc can be found in the "TRiLOGI\TL5\usr\samples" folders. You should open up some of these example programs to study how to achieve what you want to do. It isn't difficult or complex to achieve what you want to do, just a matter of getting familiar with the commands to achieve the result.

[CYBERTEK007]

I dont want to cange the password of the PLC

I want to use 1 plc at the door hooked to a key pad and  the door release hooked to one of the plc's relays

Enter a 6 digit code, The door plc will send a request to the master plc "is this ______ code valid.

the master plc will then look up the code in its table and if it is valid send remote command to the door plc to open relay for N seconds

if the code is not valid it will send a pulse to a counter on the door plc

if the door plc receves 3 not valid pulses then it will time out reading of the keypad of 900 Seconds

You said there are many good Access systems out there to do this that is true!

But i would like to use your system to do this because over all it will be  cost efective
and i need to do other things like turn lights on, turn fans on, monitor status of doors closed,locked, as well as room temp.
cant find many door access systems that will let me do that.
not to mention HVAC system and alarm system

So here it is in a nut shell
I Am looking to use 17 plc's maybe the same number of HMI
are you willing to help and give me a simple application note on how to do it??

Yes i know that requiers some work on your part, But it will also help you make sales to others. Dont you think others are looking at the support pages and saying what a dumb answer (go buy a good access system) why not just tell people to use an allen bradly PLC
the you dont have to do any work.

back to the subject

Or should i take my business to lets say WWW.COMFILETECH.COM
who also has Basic + Ladder programming PLC and lots of application Help and notes.
I have spent 1000.00 on your system but i could always dump it on ebay and go with CUBLOC System?
Don't you know the support is what makes the product.

Sorry for the additude but as i read through this forum all i see is basic answers to everyone.
And I think I have been verry detailed about what i would like to accomplish.

I am going to purchase there CUTouch system and a keypad interface since i need to add a touch screen anyway and test see wich one does the job better or in my case wich system has the quickest learning curve and best tech support.

[plc_user]

Before we need to get out the KOOL AID, lets get something straight.  In defense of the Tech Support, this guy does a bang up job answering the odd, misleading and ambiguous questions for everyone.  There is just so much a person can do.  Tech support isn't a magician he isn't in your mind or even involved in your project.  I have had some issues with TRIANGLE RESEARCH products and they have always, "I mean always" been curitous and helpful.  My projects are just that, my projects.  Tech support has always been there to help me, but it has to be a technical issue not a application installation.  That is not to say that they won't lead you in the right direction as to an application hint with some code or algorithm.

Now for the Cublock controller.  When making comparsions I hope that you are looking at both with an open mind.  Things appear to be similar and maybe you will find something superior in that brand of controller.  I will have to say this.  After looking at their product, it does look intriging.  But when you compare both products,  I feel that TRIANGLE RESEARCH fills the job because of its GENERAL ability to fill almost all applications.  One thing that CUBLOCK lacks is the ability to handle QUADRATE INCREMENT ENCODERS.  Yes, they have high speed counters, but I do believe it isn't BI DIRECTIONAL.  Having the ability to handle both channels of an QUAD ENCODER is a standard characteristic of most PLC's why doesn't CUBLOCK.  

To tech support, keep up the good work.  I will continue my use of your product and always value your opinion.

plc_user

[CYBERTEK007]

Look I am not bashing the Tech Support Guy!

Im bashing there system of providing help!

Look at Parralax, Microchip, Motorola, TI, the list is to long to mention,
They all provide application notes, with scematics, code, even gerber files and pcb artwork
This is to make it as easy as posible for people to start using there product.
The quicker the learning curve the faster the revenue comes in.
I am ready to drop 5,000.00 dollars, on a product!
If i cant get help on using the product
What good is it for me to purchase it,
It may be the best one out there
But if i can't get it to work it is useless!.

When i build a device for a customer do you think i can say
Well look at the sample documentation  provided and figure it out for your self.
No the customer says i payed you, the device don't work now come and fix it.

Now Am I going to use Products that i can't get help with, When i have Problems?

The point is in order to support my customer! I also need Support!
My referance to Cubloc was!
"Look at there support board"
Look at there answers to there customers,
Look at the way there users help each other,
They may not be the best now!
But at the rate they are going it won't be long!
So you tell me?
Where is the best bet on return of investment.

I like the product, T100MD+
I just am frustrated that i can't get answers,
When every other place can give answers!  

It makes me boubt my choice on the product i invested in.

It may take many weeks but i will figure it out!
Then i to can be a nother user that will take his programing secrets to the grave with him.

Im Done ranting it just is a wast of my time.
Just keep your eye on   comfiletech.com    CUBLOC (The Heat is on)

[evanh]

This is ridiculous.  You should be on the phone asking for a support, not spouting off online - which is a rather slow way of asking questions.


Evan

[support]

Many thanks to plc_user for your kind words of support.

As tech support, our job is to help customer find the most effective and hopefully lowest cost solution and not to try to sell you more of our products regardless of whether they are suitable for your application. I suggested the off-the-shelve access control system because for many applications it may be the most obvious solution compared to trying to use a PLC to do the same job. Every now and then we have customers who want to buy a PLC to control their home garden sprinkler system, and we will always tell them that it is a lot easier and cheaper to go Home Depot and get an off-the-shelve automatic sprinkler controller instead of using a PLC. Would you think that's a dumb answer too? There is a difference between focus on problems, and focus on solutions: You may have heard of this joke about American vs Russian space program that goes like this:


"When NASA began the launch of astronauts into space, they found out that the pens wouldn't work at zero gravity. (Ink won't flow down to the writing surface) In order to solve this problem, they hired Andersen Consulting. It took them one decade and 12 million dollars. They developed a pen that worked at zero gravity, upside down, under water, in practically any surface including crystal and in a temperature range from below freezing to over 300 degrees C.

The Russians used a pencil..."

In my first reply to your post, I did try to describe the various ways which you can use the PLC to do the same job. I have suggested you visit the "samples" folder because that is where you can find the sample code for entering data using the MD-HMI. As "plc_user" has said it correctly, our role is to provide technical support for specific issue, such as how to use a certain command, or to clarify any specifications of hardware or software feature, etc.  Have you actually opened any of the sample programs and run some simulation before?

We do not normally get involved with customer projects because we do have thousands of OEM customers to support and it is not practical for us to be involved with the details of each customer's project. We can't possibly write a sample program that tailor to each specific customer's potential application since that is beyond our support scope. If you require someone to actually write the program for you then you can engage a paid consultant that will evaluate your entire project and propose a package cost.

One last note, while you have the right to seek for the most cost effective solution and best support for your application, it is may not be very polite to come into this forum and praise other brand BEFORE you have tried the product or have a positive experience with their tech support at all.

[Joel Moore]

I agree with the others in supporting Triangle here.  They can't be expected to design control systems for their customers (or even begin to offer advice).  They make PLCs.  The rest is our job.  You don't ask the guy at Sears to design your deck when you buy a new nailgun.

I think the suggestion to use another system for your door access control wasn't meant to steer you away from using their PLCs but more to say that you might be reinventing the wheel.  I'd be willing to bet that there's a door access system out there that supports Modbus or something that could interact with a TriPLC controller that is performing the other tasks you mentioned.  Why not take advantage of that?

And I'm not sure why you compare the documentation offered by several chip manufacturers to what Triangle has available.  They're very different businesses.

Bah, he's probably long gone by now.